A Woman’s Place? The Dearth of Women in the Secular Movement

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The following article is adapted from a speech given at the Women in Secularism Conference sponsored by the Center for Inquiry and held in Washington, DC, in May 2012.

The underrepresentation of women in the expanding American secular movement is an uncomfortable issue for many secularists and atheists. Many deny that there is a “woman problem” in organizations dedicated to the promotion of secular values. As an author who speaks about secularism—specifically, America’s secular history—to many different kinds of audiences, I can assure you that there is a problem.

When I speak before non-college audiences—that is, audiences in which no one is required to be there to get credit for a college course—75 percent of the people in the seats are men. The good news is that this is a significant improvement over the situation that prevailed eight years ago, when my book Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism was published; at that time, my audiences were about 90 percent male. The bad news is that the gender gap in this movement remains as large as it is, although it’s less striking among people under thirty. The question is why.

The first and most obvious reason is that women, in the United States and every other country, are more religious and more devout in the practice of their religion than men. Public opinion polls show that this disparity affects every income, educational, and racial group—although it is much narrower among the highly educated than among the uneducated and the young than the old. African-American women, regardless of their level of education, are the most religious demographic in this country. This fact alone tells us that education is not the decisive factor, because although black women as a group are better educated than black men, black men are less religious. Space doesn’t permit a lengthy analysis of why women are more religious than men, so I’ll simply say that the greater religiosity of women means that both secular humanism and atheism are tougher sells to women.

I’ll also note that the very question of why women are more religious than men often elicits a prejudiced, sexist response. When I first began writing for the “On Faith” section of the Washington Post, one of the earliest questions asked for an explanation of women’s greater religiosity. An amazing number of men on my blog answered baldly, “Because women are stupider than men.”

I think most of us can agree, without parsing SAT and IQ scores, that this is not exactly a reasonable, evidence-based answer. It represents the so-called thinking of a group of modern-day social Darwinists who make up one component of the secular movement. These were the same angry white guys who would often call me “Susie” in their comments. Interestingly, the religious right-wingers on the blog simply referred to me as an “ugly old atheist.” (Apparently the former were under the impression that using a diminutive would make any woman burst into tears, while the latter group thought that calling you ugly or old was the worst possible insult.) I don’t want to make too much of this, in part because I place about as much value on anonymous opinions expressed on blogs as I do on professions of eternal love after drinking the night away in a bar. However, I don’t think it can be denied that the idea that women aren’t as, shall we say, tough-minded as men has long been held by an element in the secular movement, including the twentieth-century movement as it developed after World War II.

This misogyny sometimes shows up as a distinction between “soft” and “hard” atheists, describing people like my friend Sam Harris as a “hard” atheist because he argues that so-called moderate religion is even worse than fundamentalist religion, because moderate religion provides a respectable cover for fundamentalism. Speaking only for myself—and certainly not for womankind—I don’t agree with Harris about this. The job of the secular movement would be much easier if religion in the United States consisted only of liberal Protestantism, along with the liberal Catholicism that tells its bishops just where they can stick their doctrines, and Reform Judaism.

So does that position make me a “soft” atheist? A kinder, gentler atheist, as the religious historian Steve Prothero once described me? Such distinctions merely reduce a genuine, reasonable disagreement—one as much about tactics as principle—to a difference between the sexes. Because what’s really being said here is that in disagreeing with a male colleague on an intellectual issue, a female is “soft”—a word that’s synonymous with flabby and weak-minded. And she’s soft because, well, she’s a girl.

When I was writing my Washington Post column, “The Spirited Atheist,” I was often challenged to defend certain statements made by Harris or Richard Dawkins, and the point I always made was that one of the big differences between atheism and religion is that no atheist is obliged to agree with every single thing another atheist says. Richard Dawkins is not the pope, Sam Harris is not a cardinal, Christopher Hitchens is not the Holy Ghost, and I am most definitely not a nun. Now I’m in my sixties, and calling me soft—or even Susie-—is unlikely to crush my spirit or convince me that it’s time to repent and rejoin a church. But this kind of stereotyping is unwelcoming to young women atheists now on the fringes of the secular movement. My two nieces are both in their twenties and both atheists, but they are not at all involved in organized secularism. They consider this a quaint activity of mine, only to be expected from the generation that came of age in the 1960s—a decade which, of course, they’re sick of hearing about.

Looking back further historically, it is just a fact that a great many founders of twentieth-century secular organizations, like the Center for Inquiry or the American Humanist Association, came from either a philosophy or science background—and these two areas of academia were particularly inhospitable to women before the 1980s. I should also point out that the few women who were engaged in science and philosophy had to work twice as hard as their male counterparts to maintain themselves professionally. They didn’t have the time to become involved in a marginalized secular movement. The energies of many of the smartest and most energetic women of my generation instead went into the feminist movement, which directly affected our everyday lives for the better. Personally, I’ve been an atheist since I was fifteen, but I simply saw this as something I was—not as something in which I wanted to invest my energies as a writer.

Looking at this from the historical perspective of my generation as we came of age, I must also mention the seemingly anomalous fact that the best-known atheist in the United States in the 1950s and early ’60s was the founder of American Atheists, Madalyn Murray, known as “Mad Madalyn” to her detractors. (She later married a man named O’Hair and took his last name—something I found curious at a time when many women were beginning to keep their own last names.) Now she had not, for the most part, said anything more forthright or abrasive to Christians than have Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens—but let’s not forget that she made her points at a time when atheism was much more demonized than it is now.

And, above all, she was a woman. She frequently described religion as lunacy and silliness, and the fact that she was a female without any special academic or professional credentials made it much easier for the rest of society to dismiss her as a nut case. In a speech at the University of Maryland in 1961, Murray mocked nonbelievers like Vashti McCollum—another extremely important but less well-known woman in the twentieth-century history of American secularism—for calling themselves humanist rather than atheist. McCollum was the plaintiff in McCollum v. Board of Education of the State of Illinois, a crucial 1948 case that struck down the then-common practice of “released time” for religious instruction in public schools.

Murray, however, was contemptuous of people like McCollum who described themselves as humanists. Murray was, of course, right about the prejudice against the term “atheist,” but she antagonized many people who called themselves secular humanists because of her insistence that only “atheist” could serve as an honorable self-definition.

In general, when women have made contributions to the secular movement, they haven’t been adequately recognized. The reason I emphasize Murray is that the reaction to her in the 1960s—from within the secular community as well as outside it—was not only a reaction to her sex, but to her failure to fit any socially acceptable definition of femininity. She didn’t look like Gloria Steinem, whose appearance had a lot to do with making feminism acceptable to young women. Atheists to this day are constantly accused of being shrill, but in a sexist atmosphere shrill seems shriller when it’s a woman who is speaking. As a Massachusetts newspaper wrote in the 1850s of Ernestine Rose, an immigrant from Poland who is another overlooked female figure in the history of American atheism, “We know of no object more deserving of contempt, loathing, and abhorrence than a female atheist. We hold the vilest strumpet from the stews to be by comparison respectable.”

It so happens that one of the most important and long-lasting atheist organizations—the Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF)—was co-founded in 1976 by two women: Annie Laurie Gaylor and her mother, Anne Nicol Gaylor. But FFRF and its activities were not nearly as well known as Murray and her organization at a time when the media nearly always focused on what could be portrayed as antisocial atheist activities. I’m ashamed to admit that I didn’t know much about the Freedom from Religion Foundation until 2004, when they gave me its Freethought Heroine of the Year Award. When I told a man who is a well-known figure in the secular movement that I was receiving this award, he said, “the Gaylor women have done a lot for this movement by showing that a female atheist doesn’t have to look and sound like a shrill bitch.” He considered this a compliment.

It’s hardly surprising within the secular movement—which, after all, is not some sort of alien entity divorced from society’s other beliefs—that some men hold these beliefs. Another longer-term reason for the lack of visibility of women in the entire history of American secularism is the conscious effort that has always been made to deny the essentially secular nature of women’s rights movements, beginning in 1848 with the Seneca Falls convention, which gave national prominence to the women’s suffrage movement. In recent years, we’ve become familiar with the phenomenon of religion trying to take credit for all of the progressive movements in U.S. cultural history. There’s no denying that religion—certain kinds of religion—played a vital role in both the abolitionist and the civil rights movements. But we also know very well that religion, like the rest of the institutions of American society, was divided on the issue of slavery and, a century later, on civil rights. One of the more gruesomely comical political phenomena of the past twenty years has been the spectacle of leaders of the religious right in the South trying to take credit for the civil rights movement. You’d never know from their crocodile tears for Martin Luther King that most southern Protestant churches—among the most segregated institutions in the country—fought bitterly against civil rights in the 1950s and ’60s and drummed out of their ministry those who disagreed.

But religion never played an important role in the nineteenth or twentieth-century women’s rights movements. Orthodox religion has always been the staunchest enemy of women’s rights: even unconventionally religious women like the great Quaker Lucretia Mott were often accused of being atheists when they spoke out about discrimination against women. So, by the way, were the Quaker sisters Sarah and Angelina Grimké, who in the 1830s took the then unheard-of step—for women—of speaking out in public about both abolitionism and women’s rights. When the Grimkés began talking about the rapes of female slaves by their masters, Congregationalist ministers in Massachusetts issued a public condemnation to be read from every pulpit. The letter read, in part, “We appreciate the unostentatious prayers and efforts of woman in advancing the cause of religion at home and abroad; in Sabbath-schools; in leading religious inquiries to their pastors for instruction; and in all such associated effort as becomes the modesty of her sex, but when she assumes the place and tone of man as a public reformer, her character becomes unnatural.”

Later in the nineteenth century, in 1892 to be exact, Elizabeth Cady Stanton published the Woman’s Bible (a compilation of criticism by female scholars of the upholding of male superiority in scripture), and she was written out of the woman suffrage movement. It was thought, even by Stanton’s comrade-in-arms, Susan B. Anthony (herself an agnostic), that if the suffragist movement was perceived to be antireligious, it would never get the male support it needed. At an 1885 meeting of the National Woman Suffrage Association in Washington, DC, Stanton had made her position clear:

You may go over the world and you will find that every form of religion which has breathed upon this earth has degraded woman…What power is it that makes the Hindoo woman burn herself upon the funeral pyre of her husband? Her religion. What holds the Turkish woman in the harem? Her religion. By what power do the Mormons perpetuate their system of polygamy? By their religion. Man, of himself, could not do this; but when he declares, “Thus saith the Lord,” of course he can do it. So long as ministers stand up and tell us Christ is the head of the church, so is man the head of women, how are we to break the chains which have held women down through the ages? … Now I ask you if our religion teaches the dignity of women? It teaches us the abominable idea—Augustine’s idea—that motherhood is a curse, that woman is the author of sin, and is most corrupt. Can we ever cultivate any proper sense of self-respect as long as women take such sentiments from the mouths of the priesthood?

A year after the Woman’s Bible became an international bestseller, the suffrage association passed a resolution disavowing the book and, in effect, one of the two most important founders of their movement.

Yet even after passage of the Nineteenth Amendment, the generation of suffragists that had censured Stanton for her antireligious views continued to deny her role in the movement. As recently as 1977, when female runners carried a torch from Seneca Falls to a meeting in observance of International Women’s Day in Houston, Texas, Stanton was still treated as a nonperson. Anthony’s grandniece was seated on the dais but no descendant of Stanton’s had been invited. Only in the 1980s did Americans rediscover Stanton because by then, the second wave of feminism had refocused attention on the issue Stanton was among the first to recognize—the need for women to change their view of themselves.

Today there are many religious feminists fighting for equal treatment of women within their faiths—something that doesn’t interest me but understandably interests them. But these women were the result, not the cause, of the twentieth-century feminist movement. Even so, there is still a tendency on the part of feminists themselves to downplay the role of secular women in the feminist movement.

Every one of us old enough to remember knows that the leadership of the feminist movement of the 1970s was disproportionately secular. But it’s not talked about or written about much, because one of the main accusations leveled by the right against feminism is that its proponents are godless. Certainly not all feminist women are godless, but a godless woman is more likely than not to be a feminist. There are exceptions. Ayn Rand, the great heroine of the far right (which is willing to overlook her atheism because of her idolatry of the free market), was extremely misogynous in her views.

The restoration of secular women to the history of various social movements is, I think, essential to attracting more young women into our ranks. But that alone isn’t enough, because we need to admit that some political divisions within our movement may make secular organization seem particularly inhospitable to these young women.

Let’s just admit it: there is a real division between secular humanists and secular conservatives—something that would surprise the religious right, which considers all atheists as socialists. In the Center for Inquiry, the organization with which I’m most familiar, this often expresses itself as a division between “humanists” and people who call themselves “skeptics.” There is a lot of overlap between these two groups but, in my experience, the skeptics tend to be more conservative and more male-oriented. Incidentally, I’ve been invited only once to speak at an event put on by people calling themselves skeptics, but I’m constantly being invited to speak before humanist groups.

When I was organizing events for the Center for Inquiry in New York City, I came to see rather quickly that male attendance at events focusing on what were perceived as women’s issues was very low. One of the first events I organized was a panel on women’s rights as human rights—something that’s obviously a key issue for us—and it was the worst-attended event we had that year. The Women in Secularism conference sponsored by the Center for Inquiry and held in Washington, DC, in May 2012 was a groundbreaking event, but it too was overwhelmingly female in its attendance. We have a long way to go in the secular movement before women’s rights are fully seen as one of “our” issues, that is an issue of equal concern to men and women.

So what can we do to move some of the audiences at secular events—ones not specifically directed toward women’s issues—toward something more representative of the educated population?

As I’ve already suggested, our first job is to write women back into secular history. I am not talking, by the way, about “political correctness”—a phrase I hate because it is generally used to mean a point of view at odds with whatever the person using the term is selling.

Our second task is to link the past denigration of women by conservative religion with the current relationship between theocracy and misogyny. I recently watched a segment on Hardball with Chris Matthews concerning a new book about the CIA’s twenty-year history in Afghanistan, and one retired operative said with a sneer that one of the things wrong with the current administration’s policy is its concern with such superfluous goals as “trying to make it safe for little girls to go to school.” It may well be impossible for well-meaning foreigners to make it safe for little girls to go to school in Afghanistan, but that goal does not deserve disdain.

The status of women within the Islamic theocratic world is a major secular issue, and secularists are in a better position than the religious to emphasize this because the religious are stuck with pretending that what happens to women in places like Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia—to take two very different examples—has nothing, perish the thought, to do with “true” religion. Last spring I debated Dinesh D’Souza in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where he accused me of suffering from “antireligious dementia”—apparently a new psychiatric diagnosis. But listen to what D’Souza says in his book, The Enemy at Home:

The left is responsible for 9/11 in the following ways. First, the cultural left has fostered a decadent American culture that angers and repulses traditional societies, especially those in the Islamic world that are being overwhelmed with this culture. In addition, the left is waging an aggressive global campaign to undermine the traditional family and to promote secular values in non-Western cultures. This campaign has provoked a violent reaction from Muslims who believe that their most cherished beliefs and institutions are under assault.

Their most cherished beliefs and institutions are under assault? Like the right to throw acid on little girls who want to attend school? The right to keep women from driving? The right to kill women who have been raped to restore honor to the family? By D’Souza’s claim the cultural left is responsible for making Islamists mad by denouncing these practices of the “traditional family” in countries that haven’t progressed beyond the fourteenth century in their attitudes toward women. There is a big opening for secular humanists on these issues. We need to put our money and volunteer efforts where our mouths are.

This certainly applies to issues at home—ranging from contraception to child day care—in which patriarchal right-wing Christian values are used to limit women’s opportunities.

Of course there is also a need to tap more women for positions of responsibility in secular organizations. Women have played a very important role in grassroots battles—say, the teaching of evolution in public schools—but they’re not as well represented at the organizational level. Again, I think part of this is generational and is about to change, but experience in other social movements shows that such change doesn’t happen automatically.

Finally, it’s time for women’s rights to be seen not as a “special” issue but as something integral to our larger mission of freeing society from anti-rational, supernaturally based restrictions. And nothing, by the way, is more important in this effort than the education of children—an endeavor that can draw on both the traditional role of women and the urgent need to educate the young in reason. It was Ernestine Rose who argued in 1853 against the pseudoscientific idea that there is some sort of a “God gene.” No, she said, religion is the result of indoctrination—not of a “natural” propensity to believe the unbelievable.

“A child may be made to believe in a falsehood and die in support of it,” she said. “And therefore there can be no merit in mere belief … Bibles are always written so obscure [sic] as to require priestly interpreters, and their means of salvation is to strangle every one they come in contact with who does not believe as they do.”

This is just as true today as it was 150 years ago, and no issue is more important to the secular movement in the United States and around the world than combating such ideology. We need more women on the front lines of this battle, and we need them now.

Susan Jacoby is an author, most recently of the New York Times bestseller The Age of American Unreason, about U.S. anti-intellectualism. A former Washington Post reporter and “On Faith” columnist whose writing has appeared in a wide variety of national publications, she currently lives in New York City.



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  • advancedatheist

    Jacoby shows the confused thinking in humanism which equates traditional theism with patriarchy, when in fact the latter falls within the realm of empiricism. We can’t communicate with supernaturals, despite what clergymen and those foolish “ghost hunters” on cable TV reality shows say. But men have had to live with women all along, and if our culture has formed and perpetuated beliefs which put women in a bad light, well, you can’t blame that on spooks.

    And men didn’t create patriarchy out of the meanness of our hearts. Patriarchy emerged unplanned and spontaneously in the course of evolution as our species struggled to survive and perpetuate genes in a harsh and exiguous world. In anything, patriarchy invented men, and women, because it works pragmatically as a survival and reproductive strategy. The effort to throw away this tradition of wisdom and pattern-recognition could have some untoward consequences in the long run, after the manner of Rudyard Kipling’s poem about “The Gods of the Copybook Headings.”

    • ladyatheist

      While it might be true that a million years or so humans (through evolution) took on a more patriarchal tone to survive it is also true that spontaneous evolution was because of extremely harsh environmental problems. Our species only survived due to adaptability and our incredible “hardy baby” luck. Our environmental needs have again shifted which some could argue has produced another evolutionary change. No longer are our babies in dire need to have a man’s strength to survive. In fact, survival alone is no longer dependent on any one gender. Using evolution to continue a sexist agenda is just as baseless as using evolution to prove racism or genocide. And no one has said men “created” patriarchy, but it certainly seems they are perpetuating it. I don’t blame them. When you’re on top, it’s difficult to let go. My daughter’s school volleyball coach puts her on the team before try outs. It’s a very “hush hush” situation. The fact that she tries out at all is only for show. My good friend told me the system is unfair. Her daughter never stood a chance because the coach already PRE picked his team and never even looked at anyone else. She’s right. Totally right. BUT, my daughter is on the team and I’m not about to take the issue to the principal . When you’re in the cat-bird seat, it’s a tough pill to swallow to vacate it on principle alone. It would sure be nice if everyone operated in that way, but I think the selfish gene wins more often than not. So, to hear a man argue points on why men are superior it invalidates him. Especially these days.

      • ladyatheist

        Sort of like when people say the bible is inerrant word of a supernatural being. Who says the bible is infallible? Oh the BIBLE says it’s infallible. So the case must be closed.

    • erin

      to say that patriarchy is necessary “in the long run” is not a valid argument against change because it speaks to the “slippery slope” ideology most often used by religious to prevent advancements. oh gosh if women vote what’s next, dogs?!? if our culture puts one in a position of power over all others as men are over women then isn’t it our job as freethinkers to lead the way to a more equal society?
      the men who live today did not create the patriarchy but they have benefited from it the same way the white people who live today have benefited from decades of racism. therefore it is their responsibility to recognize their privilege and take a step back. to say that changing our culture could be dangerous “in the long run” is a false argument and is not valid because it speaks to the “slippery slope” idea. it is the same argument used against women’s suffrage and marriage equality.
      for a freethinking you seem to be remarkably close-minded!

    • Shana

      Not all cultures are patriarchal. And patriarchy has no agency–it cannot invent anything. I think it emerged from competition for resources–including reproductive ones–and coincidental sexual dimorphism. We don’t need patriarchial society to survive any more than we need religious faith, but men like to find ways to justify it because it’s to their advantage.

      • Kathleen

        Patriarchy, in contemporary usage, has been reintroduced by feminism to refer to power relations that result in male domination and female subordination. Researching it in evolution or through biological drives reverts to blaming the victim when the problem of women’s condition now needs to be changed.

      • http://www.facebook.com/jasonrwalling Jason Walling

        Show me this “patriarchy”.
        Oh, wait, you can’t since it is a feminist myth. Just like the pay gap. It makes great headlines but fails miserably when scrutinized dispassionately.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jasonrwalling Jason Walling

          Oh, come on now.
          Down vote but not have the parts to put it on the line and show this non-existent “patriarchy” that feminists love to prattle on about?

          Okay, I will go you one better.
          Show me this “patriarchy” and I will show you a prominent feminist endorsing.
          Go ahead, I dare you.

          • TM

            One definition of “Patriarchy” is as follows: “a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it.” Here’s just one example of how that definition applies today: Do you happen to know how many U.S. Senators are women? 17 out of 100 (that’s 17% or just shy of 1/5th, in case you forgot how math works). There have been only 35 women senators total in the entire history of the U.S. I could give you statistics for the rest of government and for non-governmental positions of power (CEO’s and whatnot) but you can dang well google it yourself, and I’ll give you a hint ahead of time – you’ll notice a pattern. If you look outside of the U.S., you’ll see that the power differential varies by country, but, again, you’ll see a pattern. The world is run, in large part, by men. Dare matched. Now show me some actual evidence for YOUR claims.

          • nad

            Unequal results do not necessarily mean unequal opportunity. Evolutionarily men had a greater motivation to compete for power so it would not be surprising if they were better at it or would work harder to get it. Your argument that disparity among leaders prove exclusion is based on the assumption that human beings are blank slates. But that assumption is obviously wrong.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jasonrwalling Jason Walling

            Dare not matched.
            The majority of the voters in your US anecdote are in fact female.
            What group oppresses themselves?
            You also ignore the reality that far more women CHOSE to interrupt careers to raise children. This is not forced on them, and frankly more men would love to be able to do the same. But, as we know this tends to slow down career advancement.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jasonrwalling Jason Walling

            For that matter, what other “oppressed” group outlives their “oppressors”?
            Has far more money taken from their oppressors for their medical benefit than is spend on the oppressors medical benefit?
            Has the oppressors enact laws (like VAWA since you seem to be American) to benefit and protect only them when it has been well known for more than 4 decades that domestic violence is bi-directional 1/2 the time and women tend to hit and use weapons more often overall?

          • Velma

            I’m sure, in all the research you’ve done attempting to undermine feminist theory, that you’ve come across the term “internalized”.

          • BruceMcGlory

            Big boys do their own homework. Mommy isn’t responsible for you.
            There’s this thing called “Google”. If you type words into the little window Google provides, it will show you site that explain things to the ignorant.
            Start with Manboobz. You’ll fit right in.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jasonrwalling Jason Walling

            Manboobz? That intellectually bankrupt panderer is relevant how?
            Any fan of David Futrelle is not worthy of a second response.
            Have a nice day.

          • JB2

            Thanks Jason for your comments. Reading feminist drivel (like reading drivel by other fanatics such as libertarians [yes, yes, not all of them are]), is a little soul-crushing. One usually wants to reply, but feels it isn’t worth the effort.

          • Volt-aire

            Jason Walling, you are making a series of extremely close-minded judgements, setting up strawmen and knocking them down like a champ, and generally being a tool. For one: Feminism is not based “on feelings,” it’s based on very real (and scientifically, historically proven) historical disadvantages that women have faced for very literally thousands of years. Your arguments about evolutionary psychology are spurious, unprovable, and beg the question. “Why are women treated poorly? Probably because they’ve always been treated poorly, and we wouldn’t do that without a good reason, therefore there’s a good reason.” It’s incredibly intellectually dishonest and it’s a disgrace that you’d call yourself “secular,” as it’s the kind of argumentation that is most loved by religious types at their best (and by that I mean their worst).

            There ARE biological differences between men and women, AT THE AGGREGATE. That means the average man is slightly stronger or more aggressive than the average women, and the strongest or most aggressive man is slightly stronger or more aggressive than his superlative female counterpart. That does, by no means, mean that EVERY man is stronger or more aggressive. If you observe the gender gap in this country, the slight observed aggregate differences in physiology and psychology BY NO MEANS make up for the vast difference in social and political standing. “Women have a choice to stay in the home–” setting aside that that has only been true for a handful of decades, and remains untrue for women in parts of america today– can be defeated with the same logic that allows any atheist to explain why so many people “choose” to remain in church while we still believe that it’s entirely false. The fact that the choice exists does not remove the vast social pressures, lifelong conditioning, and out-and-out coercion that people face to make those “choices.”

            Finally, I don’t know what tiny sliver of feminist thought you’ve been exposed to that convinces you it’s an “unscientific” movement about “feelings,” but there are vast waves of fully data-driven statistical analysis done by, yes, “touchy-feely” feminists that would put the peurile things you’ve said on this blog to absolute shame.

            You’re a disgrace to secularism, as you’ve taken the cloak of “science” and spread it over your unscientific, prejudiced views to defend yourself with the aplomb that any preacher uses the bible to defend any of his own bigotries. Science respects other points of view, science tries to find the truth, and science does not take “just-so” stories as proof that a gender that has dominated the human experience for thousands of years “deserves it” any more than religious institutions that have dominated for thousands of years do.

            Have a nice day.

          • skeith

            Volt-aire, I believe you’ve spent a lot of effort casting pearls before swine, so to speak. Jason Walling made up his mind a long time ago, and is unlikely to change it for any reason – in that respect, he is exactly like the true believer of any faith.

            Feminism, really, is the omg-so-radical and omg-so-touchy-feely belief that women are actually people. JayJay and his little friends here (assuming they are not socks) espouse the Rush Limbaugh school of thought that because women have legal equality that means they also have true equality and anyone who says otherwise is pushing an anti-man agenda. No amount of factual information or reasoned discussion will convince someone like JayJay that he is wrong, and it is not worth anyone’s time to try.

            One can only avoid such people, which is exactly what Susan Jacoby was talking about here. Women, for some bizarre reason, don’t appreciate being derided and called names when they notice that they do not actually have true equality and have the temerity to say so out loud. Hence, when your movement is full of JayJays and their sockpuppets, women tend to go the other direction.

            Anyone who thinks that’s not only no problem, but actually desirable as JayJay does, is beyond help.

          • threefourdumb

            The entitlement you feel to be a domineering piece of garbage. There you go.

        • BruceMcGlory

          LOl wow you’re dumb.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jasonrwalling Jason Walling

            I’ll see your ad hominem with my own.
            Asshat.
            Now, address my claim (which I know you cannot) or begone.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1665382363 Scott Locklin

        Name one that isn’t.

  • jaduncan

    I am at once impressed by Jacoby’s efforts and depressed at her experiences.

    It’s just appalling that secular men aren’t taking the “all people are equal” track. But, nonetheless, there’s a lot of people in the secular movement who have a touch of the MRA about them.

    This is making me think unhappily of the elevator thread on Metafilter:

    “The guy in the elevator was not accused of being a rapist; I got the impression from Rebecca that she wasn’t even really worried about serious threat to her safety, but was annoyed that she was being pestered by an insensitive cad. It was “slightly bad,” as you put it, and she responded at an appropriate level to the problem. She basically said to the atheist community, ‘hey, guys, don’t be an insensitive cad,’ a suggestion I find remarkably uncontroversial — it’s a slightly good suggestion in response to a slightly bad problem. It’s darned good advice, even.

    Here’s exactly what she said… That really should be sufficient to explain to everyone exactly what was ‘slightly bad’ about this situation.

    The response has been to belittle her reasonable suggestion, belittle her, accuse her of hysteria, defend the rudeness of the fellow with the proposition, and mostly act as if utterly obtuse to both the unpleasantness of the elevator faux pas and to disrespect the rational concerns of women. Women aren’t so much afraid that unruly mobs of atheist men will rape them at meetings, but that they’ll be dolts who trivialize legitimate and common concerns of women…and this incident has definitely shown that to be the case. We aren’t just going to see Rebecca Watson diminished as an asset to atheism, but all the other women who seek common cause with atheism will watch how we treat our own and find this community significantly less attractive.

    This isn’t slightly bad. It’s very bad. Atheist men are alienating the people we want to work with us on the very same problems, the oppression of women under religious regimes, that you cited in your comment.”
    STOP REPLICATING THE SAME FUCKING SEXISM YOU’RE PROTESTING, SECULAR MEN. IT IS NOT THE JOB OF THE WOMEN INVOLVED TO PUT UP WITH THIS SHIT.

    • nad

      It’s just appalling that secular men aren’t taking the “all people are equal” track.

      It should be expected. Men who do not really care about what they ought
      to think, who are less affected by societal expectations regarding what
      is acceptable are overrepresented in secularist movements. So it just
      follows, that they are not as much into the current dogma of all people
      are equal.

      • http://www.facebook.com/jasonrwalling Jason Walling

        Both Nad and Jaduncan appear to be sexists and no one has taken them to task for this.

        “It’s just appalling that secular men aren’t taking the “all people are equal” track.”
        “It should be expected. [U]Men who do not really care about what they ought
        to think[/U], who are less affected by societal expectations regarding what
        is acceptable are overrepresented in secularist movements.”

        Re-read your own comments and add “black”, “asian”, or “physically disabled” in front of every instance of YOUR use of the word “men”.
        Hell, change “men” out for “left-handed, lesbian, midget, albino, Eskimo”.
        Do you now see why your “reasoning” is flawed and your ideology is revolting?

        But, thank you for offering concrete proof of the very reason why feminists must never be granted entrance to any group that has human advancement and equality as ideals.

        • nad

          I can hardly see what you intended to say. Though i am not a native English speaker i had the impression that man not only meant human male, but also human. Is this choice of words what you are objecting to?
          If you consider someone who does not believe in the literal equality of people, peoples, sexes, races, etc., then i am sure sexist. Though in this case i would have to consider being sexist racist ableist … to be the sign of mental sanity.
          Please note, i do think equality before the law is a rather good way to organise a society.

          • nad

            missing word:

            If you consider someone who does not believe in the literal equality of
            people, peoples, sexes, races, etc. sexist, then i am sure sexist.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jasonrwalling Jason Walling

            I fully concur that full equality before the law is absolutely essential. Literally equal, in opportunity but, not outcome.
            I may have mistaken you for one of those Atheism Plus(ideology) types.
            As stated elsewhere feminism is not about equality but about extra special privileges and perks while maintaining all traditional privileges and perks. It is ideological to the degree that it is inseparable from any other religion.
            Also, its adherents tend heavily to sexism and have high occurrences of racism and gay-bashing.

          • threefourdumb

            Nope.

    • Joseph Blower

      No need to yell. Back to the kitchen, luv.

      • threefourdumb

        Unburden yourself, just admit you don’t like women.

      • canaduck

        Why would you think it’s okay to talk to another person like that?

  • gragra

    test

  • BillW

    This is an excellent, thought provoking article and well worth the reading. It also follows a pattern I’ve seen in many (but obviously not all) political movements where the leaders were too often men – and they saw nothing wrong with that. I think that men tend to think that in contentious battles, they are naturally more aggressive and so must lead the way. Women’s rights is obviously one exception (of necessity!) but I cannot think of another. The question is one of leadership, and clearly the Civil Rights movement failed on that count. Part of the fallacy of aggression is that success is always gained by aggression, part the assumption that women cannot (or are less inclined “naturally”) to be aggressive.

  • gragra

    2 Things I didn’t understand:

    1. Why is soft vs. hard atheism (as defined above) inherently sexist? There are atheist men who think that moderate religion isn’t the problem. I hear people contrast Dawkins and Rees int he same way.
    2. What does this have to do with addressing why women are more religious than men, which, if true, would most naturally explain the relative dearth of women in the secular movement?

    • Answer for Gragra

      I think the answer for your first question is that when a man is a “soft” atheist, then he’s a good-hearted atheist with intentions to make the world a better place for both religious and nonreligious alike. What a good man! But when a woman is a “soft” atheist, then, well, obviously it’s because she’s a woman. Duh. They’re inherently soft and weak.

      Now, I know plenty “hard” and “soft” atheists from both sexes but male atheists are never pinned with being inherently something deemed inferior by society for just being men but I’ve seen plenty accusations towards female atheists.

      I think this also answers the second question since religion usually starts at home and when a woman and man start off in a religious family, the man is more welcomed to other religious or nonreligious groups whereas the woman will experience both implicit or explicit sexism in either decision so she is most likely going to stick with what’s familiar to her which is her religion. Why join atheism if you’re going to be picked on your sex whether or not you leave Christianity/Islam/Hinduism? Especially when the deity you worship doesn’t judge you based on your sex (even if society does). This is probably why, even though most colleges are made up of female students, the female students will most likely turn to their religion for comfort and support in this dog-eat-dog world than men would.

  • Arakiba

    Look at elevatorgate and answer this: Why in the world would women even want to be part of this movement, if they’re treated as badly by secularists and atheists as they are by religious fundamentalists? What’s the point? The only difference is secular men will be claiming women are inferior based on science instead of religion.

    • BruceMcGlory

      Spot on, yes. I’m not female, but have seriously reconsidered my participation in the movement after what I’ve seen. Becase, while not female, I am gay. Fagbashing is Misogyny’s eldest son. if these dudes hate women as much as they love making it appear they do, hating us isn’t far behind.

      • Elaine

        Try checking out the A+ (Atheism Plus) movement that is growing online. They’re for atheists who are interested in social justice movements, and are made up of people who won’t stand for the hate.

        • drashizu

          Seconded.

        • http://twitter.com/reneehendricks Renee Hendricks

          Yep. Just a *huge* load of feminism and not a whole lot more. I’m of the ilk that don’t think that A+ represents anything worthwhile to the atheist community. I’ll still do what I do for social issues (which is quite a lot), remain an atheist, and distance myself from misandry-laden groups.

    • Sarah K

      I want to be part of the movement because for every sexist thing I’ve heard of, I’ve also met plenty of open-minded, welcoming folks who make me feel empowered as a secular movement. And organizations like CFI putting on conferences like Women in Secularism don’t hurt, either.

  • Danarra

    I’m wondering if part of the issue has to with some (not all, not even a large percentage, but some) men moving into atheism and secularism in order to set themselves apart from religious women? I may not be communicating this correctly.

    • JB2

      Highly unlikely. Why would a male feel the need to set himself apart from religious women? (A rational male will come to a secular conclusion by virtue of reason, rather than an emotional need to feel superior to others. Though a feeling of superiority may naturally follow, regardless (I mean, look at those foolish, stupid nutters.))

  • Kim Rippere

    This is, pretty much, exactly what she Susan Jacoby at Women in Secularism. No surprise there! In just a few months I cannot image that much would change.

    What I do see is open conversation on the internet regarding social activism, gender, and tolerance. That is much appreciated. Are all the posts, threads, and comments positive and supportive? No. Are there a variety of opinions? Yes. Is there work to be done? Yes. *But* we *all* knew that!

    I agree more women are needed on the front lines. Come find me and let’s work together to make it better.

  • Jane

    Remember how the women’s suffrage movement was stalled by a division between those who saw abolition as an integral part of the advances they were seeking, and those who thought their own agenda would be hijacked by the distraction of helping the abolitionists? Let’s replace “abolition” with “women’s issues” and pretend we’re talking about the Humanist/Atheist movement.

    The same arguments that the early suffragists employed could be applied today: The country/atheists are keeping us out to their own detriment. We are here, we are strong, and we can make this movement stronger. It would be to the advantage of the male atheist community to, not just step back and let us in, but court our participation and assistance. The more perspectives included in a movement, the more effective it can be.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jasonrwalling Jason Walling

      Any group that functions on factual evidence rather than ideology cannot allow co-option by feminism.
      Feminism relies of feelings over facts. How could they do anything but constantly derail dialogue?
      Note: That is no way means women should not be welcome. Only the feminists (which may be either male or female) because feminism resembles a religion much more than any social justice cause. If you will have feminists you may aswell invite the Pope.

      • JB2

        Well said, though not obvious to the commenters here.

  • JB

    “Because women are stupider than men.” There may be some truth to that claim, without it (aside from the phrasing) being sexist. There was a study of German students showing that males have half a standard deviation more general knowledge than females. That’s huge. (Granted, there is far more to intelligence than general knowledge, but it’s a large part.)

    • Nameless

      In my experience, men are far more likely than women to collect facts (aka ‘general knowledge.’). Like the statistics of baseball, far more engaging than the game itself, which has 2-3 active players and 15-16 just standing around spitting on the grass and farting..

  • Nullius

    Susie, you’re a WONDERFUL old atheist. Great article.

  • http://twitter.com/StellaTex StellaTex

    Women are more religious than men as a group because they are necessarily forced to seek coping mechanisms to offset living in a patriarchy. It’s sad that many of them have Stockholm Syndrome, though, and can’t see that their religious institution is one of the leading purveyors of same. Anyway, it’s about security, community, and support. Women need it more than men for physical safety, childcare, financial help, and emotional bonding. As a group.

    • TomJV

      If such a simplistic monocausal relation would be true why would men would be religious at all?

  • ProfessorJack

    Could it be that women are less inclined than men to mount a full frontal mockery of older people’s faith…merely as a matter of social graces?

    • http://twitter.com/slendermeans Carly

      There might be something to this. I think women are generally more sensitive to the feelings of others and don’t want to offend them or cause conflict. I’ve known plenty of agnostic/atheist women who haven’t argued about religion since they were teenagers, mainly because they know nothing good can come of it. Of course, some atheist men are the same way, but the issue seems to affect women more.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002190548103 Tim McEown

        And Carly’s response, in a nutshell, is why I think that there are less women who are avowed atheists’ than men. ‘ I’ve known plenty of agnostic/atheist women who haven’t argued about religion since they were teenagers, mainly because they know nothing good can come of it.’ And if Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens felt the same way the world would be a lot bleaker place. This kind of aggressive intellectual discourse is a necessary part of changing the paradigm. I also believe that atheism is a somewhat risky position to take. It can be socially isolating and in some instances even physically dangerous– you shouldn’t yell atheist in a crowded country bar just as a for instance.
        What I am not arguing that many woman haven’t taken courageous and often dangerous positions throughout history, what I am arguing is that woman are generally more risk averse than males– particularly when status issues within a community are concerned. And obvious atheism is, even today, a stance that is fraught with all sorts of social risks.

      • Phil Rimmer

        Women typically test higher on the empathy scale. They are more efficiently and effectively social and religion, especially in the US, is a social institution gluing together (compared to Europe) rather scattered communities. Simon Baron Cohen has proposed that there is an empathic/systemising axis of behaviour, with autism (low empath, super systemizing) being the extreme end of male behaviour.

        Atheism has more than its fair share of “Sheldon” Aspies, socially clueless but enthralled when things fit reassuringly and dispassionately together.

        The gender difference is the difference in valuation of the social fabric as an asset..

        We are lucky to have both sexes. The empathy bell curves by sex need only be a little offset for this highly noticeable statistical result. Individuals of either sex, however, can be found with every possible empathic/systemising level.

        • http://www.facebook.com/skylab.rand Skylab Rand

          Very well written, pithy and instructive.

        • Question

          I wonder is the empathy curve applies to African Americans compared to White Americans, as well. If this is true, then is it a possibility that social injustices make oppressed people more empathetic?

          If not, then is it an evolutionary trait?

      • Velma

        Yes, I was surprised she did not bring this up. Hearty debate seems to go hand-in-hand with active, outspoken atheism, and I think it is truthful, rather than sexist, to say that women are often uncomfortable with conflict, while men are more likely to welcome it. Whether it’s nature or nurture, it is a basic truth.

        I’m not saying avoiding conflict prevents women from becoming atheists – just that it keeps us from engaging in activism/public discourse, or the secular movement. I know that’s been my experience. I’d rather just not talk about it. Besides, I’m an atheist for ME, not for the greater good! And arguing with men is EXTRA frustrating. (Watching Rebecca Watson get publicly bashed hasn’t helped. If that’s what atheist events are like, then FUCK THAT.)

  • Edward G

    You started in with the warmed-over polemics about half-way through and I decided that was enough effort put into this for me. Tell me, though, does she ever get around to Ayn Rand? Or do libertarians not fit into her narrative?

    • threefourdumb

      lolbertarians.

  • saksin

    Why did Jacoby open her article by raising the interesting question regarding the greater religiosity of women in the population at large if she did not intend to answer it? That question is hardly likely to be answered by airing feminist grievances regarding internal circumstances in the rather marginal ‘secular,’ ‘humanist,’ or ‘atheist’ currents of our culture. That, however, is all that we got after having our interest piqued by the opening question, to read to the end expecting an answer, in vain. She does not even return to it after her feminist excursion, which appears to be all she really was interested in. We cannot even use her account of alleged misogyny within the ‘secular’ movement to piece together an answer on our own, such as “the misogyny of the secularists/atheists blocks women from finding their way to the light of atheism,” because by her own account the religious movements to which women adhere with greater frequency than men are, if anything, even worse in their misogyny than the secularists. She thus has presented us with a curious puzzle, and instead of coming to grips with it, she has diverted our attention from that puzzle by devoting her article to circumstances that simply cannot solve it.

  • brianwarden

    “I’ll simply say that the greater religiosity of women means that both secular humanism and atheism are tougher sells to women.” About sums it up.

  • http://www.facebook.com/steve.meikle Steve Meikle

    If she is not a nihilist her atheism is as soft as warm butter, for she has refused the logical implications of her atheism, something i never did back in those days when i was an atheist

  • http://www.FiveFeetOfFury.com/ Kathy Shaidle

    Bad faith? (No pun intended) but you seem to be misinterpreting D’Souza’s statement about Muslim beliefs being under attack.

    I’m no big fan of his, but just because he points out that “Muslims think their cherished beliefs are under attack,” that doesn’t mean he too cherishes those beliefs.

    If I point out that the Nazis were complaining about the Treaty of Versailles and making noises about needing more “living room,” I’m making an observation, not saying I agree with their positions.

    D’Souza (and every other conservative I know) are constantly condemning those Muslim practices you mentioned and also condemned. (And we get called racists etc for doing so.)

    It’s something we all agree on. (Duh, I know…)

    So Why not focus on what we agree on?

    Why not work together, atheist and believer, and do what we can to prevent any more honor killings, female circumcision etc rather than hold yet another masturbatory, self-indulgent (on both sides) debate about atheism vs belief.

    We can go back to hating each other later :-)

    • red_queen

      It is clear that there are Islamists who feel their beliefs to be under attack, Souza assigns blame to the left. I highly doubt Islamists care about our left/right issues.

    • Byard Pidgeon

      D’Souza says almost nothing that doesn’t somehow skew into promotion of his rightwing ideology. All is subservient to his polemics.

  • red_queen

    “The first and most obvious reason is that women, in the United States and every other country, are more religious and more devout in the practice of their religion than men”
    Stockholm Syndrome?

  • J

    Women are more inclined to believe in astrology too…

  • Saira Baig

    *Applause* Love and admiration from a Pakistani atheists! You are amazing!

  • canaduck

    A fantastic article. Thank you so very much for writing it.

  • Byard Pidgeon

    I’m disappointed that you debated D’Souza, as it serves only to add credibility to his ridiculous image as a serious intellectual.

    • Nameless

      Do atheism/humanism have room for those of us who are not serious intellectuals? May we speak?

      • Byard Pidgeon

        D’Souza is a polemicist who is given status as a “public intellectual” by gullible media and right wing think tanks.
        It’s not about allowing him to speak, but lending him credence by debating him.

  • smhll

    I just read Ed Brayton’s commentary, and your quote about arguers calling you “Susie” jumped out at me. I do think that calling you by a diminutive name is a patronizing attempt on their part to buttress their own sense of superiority.

  • Frank

    Susan, what is “The job of the secular movement…” (sixth paragraph)? It may be the job of “Women in Secularism” to “write women back into secular history”, but what is the job of the secular movement in general?

  • BG

    Jacoby makes the common mistake of confusing equality with parity; that is, if men outnumber women in a movement, said movement is less valid…it goes with the feminist mindset that if, say, 50 percent of piano-movers are not women, the piano-moving business is sexist.

  • Googol

    It appears that the sexism several readers perceive derives from the adjective ‘soft’, as opposed to the concept of ‘soft atheism’. This contradicts the Bard (‘A rose by any other name…), and may be the equivalent of giving this loosely defined school of thought a bad name and hanging it. Would the Yin of ‘nuanced’ or ‘balanced’ atheism versus its appropriate Yang (‘intractable’, ‘doctrinaire’ or ‘dogmatic’) be less subject to gratuitous kvetching?

    Note one stark difference in Hindu Vedantic/monistic philosophy that sets it apart from the three major middle-eastern faiths, famously characterized by Sjoo & Mor in “The Great Cosmic Mother” as the temples of the “bull stud in the sky” — divinity when personified is viewed equally as Male or Female…see the concept of ‘Ardhanari’.

  • zorcas

    Men attend religion-oriented lectures far more often than women because, to the modern young(ish) females, religion is an irrelevancy,, whereas males think it somehow worthy of analysis and cerebration. This observation is from a male Irrelevantist